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dioscuri

Which Jonas is which?

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We know there are two Jonas' referred to in TSOI. The first one is Jonas of Amodon. He is human and one of Croal's most trusted and brilliant friends. It is suggested that it is Jonas of Amodon who first concieves the Icarian project and who, for a great deal of the time is in control of it as the designer of the new species. Croal is the genetic genius that can give form to what Jonas of Amodon maps out. Both Jonas of Amodon and Croal are exponents of complexity theory. It is on those principles that the project goes forward.

I think by the time the Orbs come to be created, the principals of design on which the project is based are already embedded deeply into the project that nothing that gets laid on top of it, like the power of the Orbs, can change it. The Orbs will be dealt the same roll of the dice that everything else is going to be.

It seems logical that it is Jonas of Amodon to whom Charles promises to guide the project along on the principals of complexity and it is why Charles has for the most part kept his hands off events after resurrection. When Charles talks about an obligation and a promise made to "Jonas", it surely must be one made to Jonas of Amodon since he is the only one who would fit the circumstances in which Charles makes those comments.

The Jonas of the "Circle of Jonas" cannot be other than Jonas of Amodon. Again the reason I say this is that the subjects which are discussed regarding the Icarians can only be from information gained from someone who actually worked on the project from the beginning.

There is another Jonas, an Icarian named Jonas. This Jonas is introduced to one of the Blacks when he delivers the extracted tooth. He is also present at the resistance meeting at the Mondale which Jamie crashes. While our Icarian with teal tipped wings named Jonas may be a figure in the resistance, and also associated with Croal at his clandestine lab in Isewire, we dont' know much more about him or his fate.

My question is, when the name Jonas is mentioned, to which Jonas does it refer? Logically an Icarian cannot be involved in the planning of his own species before it even exists. So, what else do we know about the Icarian named Jonas?

Do we have an answer to this question at present or is this just another one of those questions for which there is little evidence and what evidence there is only brings up more questions?

I'll take a chance and make a wild guess here. The purpose of the Legion of Red & Black was originally to be the guides that would keep the new Icarian race on track. It was never meant to be used as a clandestine spy network, nor as it meant to be used as the Empire used it. The Legion of Red & Black was poisoned and thrown off track when Savaron Locka got his claws into it. Charles is, in fact, the one who has kept the Legion of Red & Black on track as much as was possible under the circumstances. Notice that he attempts to personally train the best of the Icarians in his class of Icarians by circulating them through his own office as his personal assistants. It as noted that he gained a great deal of soilidarity and faithfulness from the legion by doing this. What has Charles so deeply upset that he has blood dripping from his hands is that he is forced to stand by and watch his own Icarian house being misdirected and used by the Empire for its own evil purposes.

Comments?

cheers,

dioscuri

Cheers,

dioscuri

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Presumably the meeting to which you refer is that in 2.II.30, a chapter I have titled "Council of Resistance." http://scrolls-of-ic...titles_-_Book_2

Unfortunately, the name "Jonas" does not appear in that chapter. Your speculation seems to be pure air.

There has been much speculation in many threads regarding Jonas and Jonas. There are, as Dio correctly points out, two characters of that name, a human and an Icarian, he may not be named in the chapter you reference, but he does exist. We have almost no information about the Icarian other than he was highly placed in the Resistance, or at least one of them. Whether it was deliberate or an accident that Jamie.wri used the same name there is no doubt that that the two characters exist and that it is definitely a source of confusion.

Sadly we may never know since Jamie.wri appears to have vanished, truly sad if that is the case and what a horrible point to stop at, just as we were about to get some answers. :(

P

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Dear Pietro:

Having recently (20130715) completed a careful reread, I do not know of any event involving an Icarian named Jonas. Do you?

The wiki is intended to provide a place where real knowledge can be shared, as opposed to speculation and urban legends. If you know anything, with source, please contribute.

Hugs,

S

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Dear Pietro:

Having recently (20130715) completed a careful reread, I do not know of any event involving an Icarian named Jonas. Do you?

The wiki is intended to provide a place where real knowledge can be shared, as opposed to speculation and urban legends. If you know anything, with source, please contribute.

Hugs,

S

Hey Sam,

I haven't re-read The Scrolls for a long time so I cannot point you to any particular reference, however I am confident that there are indeed two Jonas characters, one human, one Icarian. I don't know about you, but most of us who comment here have followed the story as it was posted (originally bi-monthly) chapter by chapter and although the mentions of Jonas the Icarian are few and not especially relevant to the story at that time, possibly only once by name, it certainly stuck out as a serious discrepancy and was most confusing.

I am not likely to re-read the story again until/unless/if ever Jamie.wri posts another chapter, then of course I will have to re-read the whole thing in order to appreciate the new stuff.

P

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After doing some searching, I find that Jonas appears 67 times in Book 1 and 16 times in Book 2 to date.

In Interlude the Fifth, Gold, we meet an Icarian with Teal tipped wings named Jonas. I believe when Croal met Jonas at the Square, we weren't given a description.

This appears to be one of those unanswered questions that we have and there are some answers.

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After doing some searching, I find that Jonas appears 67 times in Book 1 and 16 times in Book 2 to date.

In Interlude the Fifth, Gold, we meet an Icarian with Teal tipped wings named Jonas. I believe when Croal met Jonas at the Square, we weren't given a description.

This appears to be one of those unanswered questions that we have and there are some answers.

Quite so. As a point of interest and I am sure you would know Tal, do we know what house teal tips represents? Do I recollect correctly that it was said somewhere that Icarians of specific houses are naturally attracted to certain other houses, like Royal Thrones and Imperial High Sepharims?

P

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After doing some searching, I find that Jonas appears 67 times in Book 1 and 16 times in Book 2 to date.

In Interlude the Fifth, Gold, we meet an Icarian with Teal tipped wings named Jonas. I believe when Croal met Jonas at the Square, we weren't given a description.

This appears to be one of those unanswered questions that we have and there are some answers.

Thank you very much indeed.

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After doing some searching, I find that Jonas appears 67 times in Book 1 and 16 times in Book 2 to date.

In Interlude the Fifth, Gold, we meet an Icarian with Teal tipped wings named Jonas. I believe when Croal met Jonas at the Square, we weren't given a description.

This appears to be one of those unanswered questions that we have and there are some answers.

Quite so. As a point of interest and I am sure you would know Tal, do we know what house teal tips represents? Do I recollect correctly that it was said somewhere that Icarians of specific houses are naturally attracted to certain other houses, like Royal Thrones and Imperial High Sepharims?

P

This passage from Book 2, Part 2, Chapter 31 might give a little insight to teal, and some of the other colors mentioned. This comes from when Jamie is invited to visit Hippolito.

Walking into the room, Hippolito’s wings caught both the sunlight and Jamie’s immediate interest. The distractions at the party during his brief conversation with Hippolito hadn’t allowed him a thorough examination of the boy’s wings. There were many different hues, tones and color combinations an avionne could have, but a series of standard patterns separated the race into specific classes such as Thrones, Royal Thrones, Seraphim, Principalities and Powers, along with a wide variety of others. After years of living in Küronas, Jamie had learned that some classes of Avionnes – such as Cherubim and Principalities – were more common, while others like Royal Thrones and his own class of Imperial, were much rarer. Looking at the young man’s wings, Jamie couldn’t easily place him in any one of the standard Avionne categories.

While Hippolito’s wings were largely white, the edges of each feather had bluish-green highlights that bordered on teal with markings in the standard pattern of a Principality. But unlike typical Principality markings, closer examination revealed that where the white and teal color met, there appeared to be the thinnest line of iridescence at the point of the color blend; A feature that to some extent mimicked his own Imperial markings. The boy drew closer and Jamie became even more intrigued when he noticed that each one of the boy’s feathers was tipped in a tiny bit of gold; One of the principle traits of a Royal Throne.

As far as the second part, I don't remember seeing anything about attraction.

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There were many different hues, tones and color combinations an avionne could have, but a series of standard patterns separated the race into specific classes such as Thrones, Royal Thrones, Seraphim, Principalities and Powers, along with a wide variety of others. After years of living in Küronas, Jamie had learned that some classes of Avionnes – such as Cherubim and Principalities – were more common, while others like Royal Thrones and his own class of Imperial, were much rarer. Looking at the young man’s wings, Jamie couldn’t easily place him in any one of the standard Avionne categories.

While Hippolito’s wings were largely white, the edges of each feather had bluish-green highlights that bordered on teal with markings in the standard pattern of a Principality. But unlike typical Principality markings, closer examination revealed that where the white and teal color met, there appeared to be the thinnest line of iridescence at the point of the color blend; A feature that to some extent mimicked his own Imperial markings. The boy drew closer and Jamie became even more intrigued when he noticed that each one of the boy’s feathers was tipped in a tiny bit of gold; One of the principle traits of a Royal Throne.

Doesn't tell us much it would seem, except that Hippolito is definitely a mongrel, but we knew that anyway. :lol:

P

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In Book 2, Part II, Chapter 18, Croal and an unnamed red-and-black have a conversation of which the Icarian Jonas is a topic, and from which it is clear that he is dead.

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The term "Icarian" was "coined by a mysterious Icarian named Jonas..." Book 2, Part II, Chapter 21.

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