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TomasG

Interlude 7 - Iron

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Wow! Lots to talk about.

We get a picture of what Charles was really about, but having to be extra cautious to having to keep his true agenda a secret, he was blindsided by the 11 Red & Black Legionaries that he thought were loyal to him. Turns out they had evidently been subverted by the smooth talking Hippolito. I also believe that Hippolito was instrumental in the cryo-units that didn't make it to Eagles Rock being lost. Also in Loran being saved.

I seem to remember that I made a comment on one of the earlier chapters that I believed that Loka's ultimate goal was to become Emperor. That has now been proven. Then before he leaves for Argon he throws Hippolito under the bus. Hippolito then has a cause for revenge.

It has now occurred to me that it was Hippolito who had the cryo-units reset to 2500 years. The thought is that Loka would wake up in 100 years and none of the resources that he was expecting was there so he would be emperor of nothing but a dead world, more or less. Then in 2500 years Loka and the rest of his cohorts and any others who escaped to Argon would be long gone and it would be an easy matter for him to become king. His revenge would be complete. I'm sure that he believed that he had the Princes and Scribes in the palm of his hand before the events in Book 1, Chapter 50 took place.

Of course, most of the above is supposition.

TomasG

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Wow! Lots to talk about.

We get a picture of what Charles was really about, but having to be extra cautious to having to keep his true agenda a secret, he was blindsided by the 11 Red & Black Legionaries that he thought were loyal to him. Turns out they had evidently been subverted by the smooth talking Hippolito. I also believe that Hippolito was instrumental in the cryo-units that didn't make it to Eagles Rock being lost. Also in Loran being saved.

I seem to remember that I made a comment on one of the earlier chapters that I believed that Loka's ultimate goal was to become Emperor. That has now been proven. Then before he leaves for Argon he throws Hippolito under the bus. Hippolito then has a cause for revenge.

It has now occurred to me that it was Hippolito who had the cryo-units reset to 2500 years. The thought is that Loka would wake up in 100 years and none of the resources that he was expecting was there so he would be emperor of nothing but a dead world, more or less. Then in 2500 years Loka and the rest of his cohorts and any others who escaped to Argon would be long gone and it would be an easy matter for him to become king. His revenge would be complete. I'm sure that he believed that he had the Princes and Scribes in the palm of his hand before the events in Book 1, Chapter 50 took place.

Of course, most of the above is supposition.

TomasG

Hhhmmmm, I don't think we know very much more about Charles from this, other than he appeared to be working for someone else rather than something else and that he had a lover, of course.

I agree he seems to have been betrayed by his inner circle, whether they had already been subverted by Hipolito or whether that occurred after their awakening in Eagles Rock, I am not too sure. I think Hipolito would have taken any information he had on plots to Loka, not tried to bend it to his own will.

I can't see Hipolito saving Loran, first I doubt he would have had time after Loka dumped him and second we already know he was intent on becoming King of Icaria long before these events, having arranged Alexander's death, he wouldn't have wanted Loran around in any future he was in.

The setting of the cryo-units must have been decided by the Kalorians, they were all set to the same period and are all in diverse locations, there is a definite mystery here, but I doubt very much it has anything to do with Hipolito.

This interlude didn't really advance the story very much or answer important questions like how did the barrier that was intended to be set around the City of the Angels and was taken over by Jamie to enclose Taldor Valen get moved to cover half the continent? And what happened to the Farzeti and how were they involved in the last days? We know they appropriated some of Jamie's possessions and they obviously knew what the grand plan was.

Ah well, time will no doubt tell. And if it doesn't I will be very disappointed in Jamie.wri. :D

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I think it was easy for Loka to ensure that none of the Blackwells made it out of the palace to the safety of the moon thus insuring no opposition.

We also now know why the Red and Black left with Hippolito and probably why there aren't any more, unless they were stored somewhere else. I'm guessing that if Loka survived and makes it back to the planet and Hippolito finds him, he won't be around long.

We also know how Jonathan wound up in the forest. Was it mechanical issues with the hov, or was it shot down. I'm guess it was mechanical issues by means of tampering.

Tho I don't think there will be an answer, but I'm curious as to who Charles was talking to that he had a spot saved for. I got the impression it was a love interest for him that may have helped him in controlling his disunion.

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This interlude didn't really advance the story very much or answer important questions like how did the barrier that was intended to be set around the City of the Angels and was taken over by Jamie to enclose Taldor Valen get moved to cover half the continent? And what happened to the Farzeti and how were they involved in the last days? We know they appropriated some of Jamie's possessions and they obviously knew what the grand plan was.

You're forgetting one important thing here, this is only Iron, we still have Bronze, Silver, and Gold to go thru. And we will get the answer to how the barrier moved and other important questions will be answered.

It also told us how Renaud, and Hippolito, got to Eagles Rock. If Renaud hadn't gone there, I don't think we would have seen him given his reputation.

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Hhhmmmm, I don't think we know very much more about Charles from this, other than he appeared to be working for someone else rather than something else and that he had a lover, of course.
Tho I don't think there will be an answer, but I'm curious as to who Charles was talking to that he had a spot saved for. I got the impression it was a love interest for him that may have helped him in controlling his disunion.

So who do you think this person is and is it important to know?

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Hhhmmmm, I don't think we know very much more about Charles from this, other than he appeared to be working for someone else rather than something else and that he had a lover, of course.
Tho I don't think there will be an answer, but I'm curious as to who Charles was talking to that he had a spot saved for. I got the impression it was a love interest for him that may have helped him in controlling his disunion.

So who do you think this person is and is it important to know?

Good question, I have no idea. I suspect it is quite important if we are to understand Charles and it may well be important with regard to just who was/is the Grand Puppetmaster. If there is one, of course, but it seems very much so to me. As I have said before, Charles knows more about ALL the various resistance factions than anyone else, the story so far suggests he knows exactly what Jamie's potential is and the training he was given, he obviously had a very large resistance group under himself, he was in charge of the Eagles Rock installation and was a major player in the Wizard's Own project, he obviously knew all about Croal's activities, possibly assisting, he knew about the Icarian/Kalorian/Human resistance, he fairly obviously knew all about the Kalorian League, the shadow empire, he also, I suspect, knew all about Charlie. Indeed everything points to him being one of the founders of the anti Empire movement, possibly even the founder although, as I say, there is a strong indication he was working to someone else's direction.

Well, let's hope we get some answers before too much longer.

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For the most part, I can agree with most of what you've said. We do know Charles was following the instructions of Jonas as to what he had been telling everyone when he held 'The Circle' meetings early in the story.

I don't think he knew about Charlie at all. Look at his reaction to the Ghorum. He didn't know about them. He also didn't appear to know what Jamie was up to. The whole time they were on the moon, Charles wasn't his usual self as we know him. He was quiet and withdrawn. He wasn't in any kind of control over the situation so he stayed back.

We do know that Charles is the first Icarian to be created by Edmond Croal. I've said this before, in our 2010 get together, Jamie told me, tho he didn't give a number, we will find out just how old Charles is when we get to the first chapter of Part 4.

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For the most part, I can agree with most of what you've said. We do know Charles was following the instructions of Jonas as to what he had been telling everyone when he held 'The Circle' meetings early in the story.

I don't think he knew about Charlie at all. Look at his reaction to the Ghorum. He didn't know about them. He also didn't appear to know what Jamie was up to. The whole time they were on the moon, Charles wasn't his usual self as we know him. He was quiet and withdrawn. He wasn't in any kind of control over the situation so he stayed back.

We do know that Charles is the first Icarian to be created by Edmond Croal. I've said this before, in our 2010 get together, Jamie told me, tho he didn't give a number, we will find out just how old Charles is when we get to the first chapter of Part 4.

Well, his reaction on Ajax was definitely muted with the exception of seeing the Ghroum guardians which makes me suspect he did know of Charlie's existence but didn't know of Jamie and Charlie's involvement with the Ghroum, probably. And it may well be that he did not know where Charlie was before that, he certainly didn't seem surprised to find an 'unknown' Icarian. That whole section was a bit iffy really. If you remember, the antechamber where the Ghroum were in stasis was itself a stasis unit, possible to construct in my mind but maybe not so probable. Then we have the situation where Ajax must have been effectively deserted when Jamie took Charlie to the stasis unit and during the following days. I know the empire was in great turmoil at the time but would the world's most important depository of knowledge and its most important research and science centre have been left completely unattended? I know the fact it could only be accessed via a gate made it very secure, but complete abandonment? Again possible but not really probable.

As to Charles, I agree he said he was working to Jonas's plan but the story also suggests he was following more up to date plans, remember Jonas has been dead years, and possibly answering to or collaborating with another resistance leader or leadership. Or is there confusion between Jonas the human and Jonas the Icarian and which did what?

There are still the other improbable mysteries like Sak'ki the Ghroum publicly being an officer in the Empire which is certain that all Ghroum have been exterminated.

And the other things like Niklas and Jonathan and probably Giovanni had to have been created by Croal from what we know and who was looking after their 'interests' as it were? Seeing to Niklas' education, allowing a blind Icarian to be decanted, arranging Giovanni's presence at the Mondele, presumably directly from decantation as he apparently has no earlier history. As a Royal Throne one would expect him to have been a failed gladiator or potential military officer but nothing indicates he was.

Much is still lost in shadow. I wonder how many of these things will be answered.

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When it comes to Sak'ki, it makes me wonder if there wasn't two by that name, one of them being human. We now Nic, Miro, and Julius used the honorific title of Master when referring to Sak'ki.

We also know that Renaud had an instructor by the same name. What we don't know is, was it the same one, or a human. Renaud has never said, not that it's important to the story. If Renaud was trained by a Ghorum, then was he being groomed to be Jamie's protector? Again, probably not important to the story.

Given the time of night that the journey was made to Ajax and what was stored there, there may have been no need for human security. It's also possible that if any humans were present, they were taken care of.

When an Icarian is decanted, they are usually the equivalent to the age of five. They then receive a cortical scan. Not even he knew how he came to be at Expedition and Service.

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When it comes to Sak'ki, it makes me wonder if there wasn't two by that name, one of them being human. We now Nic, Miro, and Julius used the honorific title of Master when referring to Sak'ki.

We also know that Renaud had an instructor by the same name. What we don't know is, was it the same one, or a human. Renaud has never said, not that it's important to the story. If Renaud was trained by a Ghorum, then was he being groomed to be Jamie's protector? Again, probably not important to the story.

Given the time of night that the journey was made to Ajax and what was stored there, there may have been no need for human security. It's also possible that if any humans were present, they were taken care of.

When an Icarian is decanted, they are usually the equivalent to the age of five. They then receive a cortical scan. Not even he knew how he came to be at Expedition and Service.

I suppose there could be a convoluted explanation of why there was a human Sakki and a Ghroum Sak'ki but I don't think it would believable if there was. I think this is a mistake by Jamie.wri, time will tell, maybe.

I would assume that Renaud's special training was specifically related to his being the Emperor's bodyguard and assassin, however that training would make him particularly effective as Jamie's bodyguard as well.

I don't agree about Ajax, if guards were there and taken care of it would have been noticed, as would a large booby trapped seal suddenly appearing on the doors to whatever the archive was called. The assumption here must be that Ajax was in fact deserted, probably due to the plague, perhaps there had been an outbreak there which would mean it had been quarantined. Coming to think about it, I don't think Jamie would have put the stasis unit for Charlie there unless he was pretty sure it was deserted and almost certain to stay that way especially as the selection of the site was made some weeks previously.

I agree decantation was normally at age five, but it is pretty clear this was not always so. We know for instance that the emphasis on preparing the post hiatus Icarian presence was changed to be predominantly military in the last few years before the plague, so we can assume the likes of Lancelot and the other one must have been 'grown' way beyond 5 before decantation.

Still, time will no doubt tell, maybe. :D

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If there was anyone guarding the building, I was thinking more in the lines of the Night Watchman.

It is also possible the Ajax became one of the quarantined areas due to the plague. However, the mortality rate was not 100%, so there could have been a few survivors around. As a precaution, Jamie sealed the building, thus preserving everything inside the building.for the future of Icaria.

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If there was anyone guarding the building, I was thinking more in the lines of the Night Watchman.

It is also possible the Ajax became one of the quarantined areas due to the plague. However, the mortality rate was not 100%, so there could have been a few survivors around. As a precaution, Jamie sealed the building, thus preserving everything inside the building.for the future of Icaria.

I don't think there could have been anyone there. If they had killed someone I think it would have been recorded in the segment where Jamie and Renaud returned. Also if there were people there or even the likelihood someone would travel there I don't think Jamie would have selected the site. We know (I think) there were places on Altinestra that had been abandoned and closed off because of the plague, before they started simply imposing a blockade, one of those might have presented an easier opportunity. We do have to allow the author a little licence sometimes, after all. :)

An Ajax deserted after the depredations of the plague is a reasonable enough explanation for me after looking at it. Indeed, the people on Ajax were obviously essential as they were the technological and scientific elite of the Empire so they may have simply already been transferred to Argon as part of the first wave of evacuation after putting Ajax in standby for the duration, for want of a better word. You know, emptying fridges, tidying up and so on. Alternatively they could actually have been there all the time, in stasis already. As access was only by Gate or space shuttle there would be no need for any living presence there.

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Let us recall that Ajax was entirely dependent on supplies from the planet below, in terms of food and other necessaries. And the gates stopped working almost immediately, and the shuttles within just a couple of years. And twenty five hundred years have gone by. a ghost moon, for sure. But even back then, after the immediate chaos settled, I suspect everyone who wasn't in stasis started back down to the planet because supplies were running out.

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