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The Talon House

dioscuri

ICARIAN
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Everything posted by dioscuri

  1. Thanks! That particular dog house is not one I've visited before -- I've kept on passing it by, but it looks like there are a few stories I'd love to read there. I guess Dreamer is used to being in the dog house by now! He keeps thinking that he's in charge of himself. I have a few thoughts about what position Dreamer could actually hold on Dream of Dawn without being in a conflict of interest position. I'm scratching my head on that one. I think he cannot Captain the Dream of Dawn. I'll get those thoughts together and post my conclusions. cheers, dioscuri
  2. I have a question about gate travel. We are told in no uncertain terms that two beings cannot be touching at the time they travel through the gates, yet Liudowag and Barcepa run through the gate holding hands. Then, when Charlie is awakened, then sent away with the Ghroum, Spinoza is thrown at Charlie and travels the gate on Charlie's shoulder. At least this is the impression those two passages give. Isn't this a contradiction? cheers, dioscuri
  3. We know there are two Jonas' referred to in TSOI. The first one is Jonas of Amodon. He is human and one of Croal's most trusted and brilliant friends. It is suggested that it is Jonas of Amodon who first concieves the Icarian project and who, for a great deal of the time is in control of it as the designer of the new species. Croal is the genetic genius that can give form to what Jonas of Amodon maps out. Both Jonas of Amodon and Croal are exponents of complexity theory. It is on those principles that the project goes forward. I think by the time the Orbs come to be created, the principals of design on which the project is based are already embedded deeply into the project that nothing that gets laid on top of it, like the power of the Orbs, can change it. The Orbs will be dealt the same roll of the dice that everything else is going to be. It seems logical that it is Jonas of Amodon to whom Charles promises to guide the project along on the principals of complexity and it is why Charles has for the most part kept his hands off events after resurrection. When Charles talks about an obligation and a promise made to "Jonas", it surely must be one made to Jonas of Amodon since he is the only one who would fit the circumstances in which Charles makes those comments. The Jonas of the "Circle of Jonas" cannot be other than Jonas of Amodon. Again the reason I say this is that the subjects which are discussed regarding the Icarians can only be from information gained from someone who actually worked on the project from the beginning. There is another Jonas, an Icarian named Jonas. This Jonas is introduced to one of the Blacks when he delivers the extracted tooth. He is also present at the resistance meeting at the Mondale which Jamie crashes. While our Icarian with teal tipped wings named Jonas may be a figure in the resistance, and also associated with Croal at his clandestine lab in Isewire, we dont' know much more about him or his fate. My question is, when the name Jonas is mentioned, to which Jonas does it refer? Logically an Icarian cannot be involved in the planning of his own species before it even exists. So, what else do we know about the Icarian named Jonas? Do we have an answer to this question at present or is this just another one of those questions for which there is little evidence and what evidence there is only brings up more questions? I'll take a chance and make a wild guess here. The purpose of the Legion of Red & Black was originally to be the guides that would keep the new Icarian race on track. It was never meant to be used as a clandestine spy network, nor as it meant to be used as the Empire used it. The Legion of Red & Black was poisoned and thrown off track when Savaron Locka got his claws into it. Charles is, in fact, the one who has kept the Legion of Red & Black on track as much as was possible under the circumstances. Notice that he attempts to personally train the best of the Icarians in his class of Icarians by circulating them through his own office as his personal assistants. It as noted that he gained a great deal of soilidarity and faithfulness from the legion by doing this. What has Charles so deeply upset that he has blood dripping from his hands is that he is forced to stand by and watch his own Icarian house being misdirected and used by the Empire for its own evil purposes. Comments? cheers, dioscuri Cheers, dioscuri
  4. Very nicely put! While the sample of Giovanni's blood does confirm who he is, all we are actually told (by Perkengius) is that he is a Royal Throne. We can guess from Jamie's reaction when he checks it against information he's stored from the 'net that he is much more than what Perkengius stated. Jamie never actually says anything at all about what he knows. All we have is his startled and happy reaction to whatever was actually revealed to him. Another of the author's (Jamie.wri) cagey slight of hand as a writer, implying something, but not actually saying it. We have no idea other than guesses at what Jamie found when he compared that data. Personally I think Giovanni was created from some of the original Agromon DNA, but its really only just a guess at this point. You see, we have been turned into not much better that poorly informed gossips exchanging guesses and using those guesses as real information, when we have no real basis for making that jump. These guesses are all lapses in logic. I've pointed that out before, but its in the information lost when that back-up failed. As to why Giovanni turned up at the Mondale Royal, its anyone's guess. It could be pure chance or it could be by design. Making a guess is throwing those loaded dice that have been put in play. The likelyhood that our strings are being pulled and we are being manipulated on a grand scale are very high indeed! Should he be another Agromon Icarian, he is surely not the warior that Nic is, he is as different as night and day to King Niklas! In other words, its anyone's guess at this point, until we have more information. cheers, dioscuri
  5. It is one of the Black brothers that delivers the tooth from the Agramos tomb directly to Croal. I doubt that he would have allowed anyone but himself to create the Icarian embryo that became Nicklas. We know that Giovanni is a Royal Throne. We also know that Jamie as you have said, would be the only one to know who Giovanni is. The only clue we have is that when Jamie saw the results of the DNA scan of Giovanni confirming he was a Royal Throne he gasped in surprise at something he saw. We also know that Jamie had seen and kept a copy of the DNA map of Nicklas (or perhaps it was of Agromos), but I am guessing that Jamie's reaction is because the DNA from Giovanni matches that of Agromos enough that he would be directly and closely related to Nicklas even though they are completely different personalities. We do? I think all we have is rumor and innuendo. We know that all the rumours about Jamie and his affairs are false, we also know that all the rumours about Nicklas are also false. That proves that there are some good gossip mongers in Kuronos. In Jamie's case it is the Impressario's office that encourages those rumours. In fact, aside from the comments made in the Bronze Interlude where the Ghadar are camped outside of the city in which Loran's army is ensconced, we have nothing. There, all we have is wolf whistles and comments on what might be fun. Assuming what you propose is like saying that the Americanized version of "Queer as Folk" is an accurate representation of how gay men acted in the 1980's, when I know that it isn't. Most of that series is about the myth of what gay society is like. Its to bad people actually believe it. We know something about relationships that were made then torn apart because the pair were separated when they were sent or bought by different Dukes or Barrons. That is part of the discussion with Trio Chrysialis about Christophe. All that talk is about trying to avoid disunion when a mated pair were forceably separated. I think it ii is a better idea to look closer to home and closer to biology her on earth. Macaw s. for instance, mate for life. Some species of Geese also mate for life. I think the Icarian project as conceived by Croal and Jonas of Amodon was a subversive project from the beginning. From Croal's point of view it was a way of making up for the creation of the Kalorians which ultimately became a slave race. The Empire is attempting to do the same with the Icarirans, However, because of Croal and Jonas belief in the concept of complexity, the Icarian race is quite unpredictable. Some things are sort of hard wired, not much though. Everything except resistance to disease and inteligence is left up to the roll of the dice. Even the creation of Charlie and Jamie from the same DNA, didn't make two of the same Icarians. Croal knew about other conspiritors, but only enough to get what he wanted done. The reason that any revolution in that Empire worked was because they didn't know about each other. If one failed, another one was there to fill in the gap somehow.Also, remember that the Kalorians are the slaves and the servants of the Empire, they are always there in the background and assumed to be invisible, which enables them to do things like move Castor around the Empire until he's working at the Mondale. So moving Gioivani in place in Expedition and Service would not be beyond the capability of the Kalorian conspiricy. Who ever from the Empire (like Savaron Loka), or even Hippolito, who attempted to interfere and control the Icarians was in for a big surprise. Genetically they are as surprising as any new species we might find here on earth. cheers, dioscuri
  6. I do not believe that it is possible for an Icarian to mate and not be a mating pair. This is designed into them genetically and not the result of a legal agreement, so the existance of an Intention to Mate document may not force the mating, it could prevent one like the one between Hippolito and Jamie! If he is biologically Charles brother it is by design. Johnathan is most certainly NOT an experiment gone wrong, he was planned for by Jonas when he planned the Icarian project, since we know from his diaries the characteristics of the Oracle and that he would have a tattoo around his arm which could be revealed only in the presence of the true Wizard if Icarua, Johnathan has this tattoo, accidentally discovered one day when Jamie was with Johnathan and Luke in the Amber Palace, then shown to the Icrian Council of Noble Houses by Jamie when he appointed him Oracle. The tattoo doesn't appear because Jamie puts it there, it was designed into Johnathan by his creators. That he is Charles' brother may also be the reason why Charles is able to fight dis-union. Not only is Johnathan entrusted to his care but also Charles is to guide the new Icarian race after resurrection. It also seems that the Icarian rite of union is a well known secret. The core of the ceremony is in Chapter 37: My guess is that this ceremony was known by many Icarians and likely Cody and Lance spoke these words to each other. It is also likely that Cody himself wrote them since he wrote all the other ceremonial scripts we have come across to date. Niklas and Jamie seem to know that they are supposed to be together because as Nicklas says to Julius " .... its like he fits exactly a part of me that is missing!". So ceremony or not, there is something about the biology of the two that belong together, cheers dioscuri
  7. I'm not sure we can surmise that the Icarian was not Charles. I'm not saying it was but just that since the hov is destroyed out of sight of anyone we know of who was watching, almost anything could have happened within even 3 minutes. Look how fast Renaud lands and restarts his hov while dropping off Jamie at the power generator! We also do not know if the Icarian in Croal's office was the pilot of the hov or if he had another person in the hov acting as pilot. All we know is that Jamie saw a Red & Black Icarian entering a hov, then the hov taking off immediately. The flight back to Kuronos would have taken over an hour which gives ample time for someone to have landed, gotten out of the hov, put the hov back into the air or changed hovs mid-trip. Conspiricy theory I know, but isn't this what the Empire is best at? This is one other incident that has Jamie.wri signature written all over it as a huge unsolvable puzzle designed to keep us wondering. cheers, dioscuri
  8. I do not think an Icarian can have a mate without the bond. Its part of Icarian biology and created like that. So if Charles had a mate he suffered disunion. It is possible for the surviving partner to fight the madness and loneliness of disunion though it apparently doesn't happen very often. The surviving partner must have some overriding purpose with which to replace the mate. That's hard to do. True enough, but what about the Empire's (and Gold Glass') demand that Icarians be as perfect as possible. There are, as far as we know, no other Icarians decanted with a disability the likes of what Johnathan has. Its also not unusual for someone born without one sense to have the other senses enhanced in some way to make up for it. Johnathan "sees" things using synesthesia. Synesthestesia is where one sense is observed using another sense. Some people actually see sound as having colour. That is synesthesia. Johnathon for instance sees Lon Nol (is he real or just an anagram?) with dark vapour could around or over him. His mind is creating an image to go with what he senses. Synesthesia comes up in the 19th century in the German Romantic movement in Literature. E.T.A. Hoffmann and Jean Paul (Pen name) spoke about it and it figures in music often from that century onward. "Behold! The Sea itself .... and on its limitless heaving breast ...." Walt Whitman; as used in Ralph Vaughan Williams "A Sea Symphony". The sea, of course does not have breasts and they do not heave like breasts do ... however, we understand what Whitman is getting at when he uses language as passionately descriptive as this example. You would think they'd have learned their lesson when they produced something like Hippolito! cheers, dioscuri
  9. If Hippolitoi is the character we all love to hate ... why give him such an extensive thread? I know! I started it! However, there are so many other characters to talk about and none are more important and also enigmatic than Charles Roegier, ühn•ki'sh'onfenn of the Sh'ônfenn. I have to say that I am more than just a bit puzzled and confused at Jamie's reaction to Charles after he gets his memories back. I know that their relationship has been a rocky one from the beginning of Book One, but I would expect that given their personalities and personal interests. It seems to me that he is doing exactly as he has claimed to be doing from the beginning --- that is implementing Jonas' wishes about the new race as best as he can. Things have been completely unexpected since they awoke some 2560 years after entering stasis. From what we know of the times before stasis, things were several orders or magnitude more complex and with it, the political intrigue happening within the Empire. Charles is head of an organization which has obviously been twisted by the Empire to its own insane uses. Torture, murder, and intimidation were never part of Jonas or Croal's plans, yet Charles has found himself in the middle of the worst of the Empire. We also believe for some reason that he has lost a mate, which we know for an Icarian can mean insanity. Disunion usually but not always results in insanity and death. Charles still lives. Did he or did he not have a mate who died (or was murdered)? How did he manage to pick his way through the intrigues of the Empire seemingly unscathed? How could he have worked under Savaron Loka, kept true to his belief in Jonas' philosophy? If Johnathan is Charles' brother, where did the other half of the DNA to create Johnathan come from? Jamie and Charlie are brothers, they share most of their DNA in common, but not all, we know that Charlie has some DNA from the Ghroum that Jamie does not have --- hence Charlie's pointed ears. So you see where my questions about Charles relationship to Johnathan are coming from. I have no answers for these questions. The easiest of the questions above is how he dealt with Savaron Loka's agents within his organization --- with a blaster! But what is remarkable is how he actually seemed to keep a step ahead of Loka. (I'm also surprised that Arlot's handy mini-blaster didn't target Hippolito at one point!) So, here is an alternative to the Hippolito needle I attempted to thread. (Pardon the pun!) cheers, dioscuri
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  11. dioscuri

    Crvboy

    I see CRV Boy is where "Owen" is hosted. I've been reading it off of Nifty for quite some time. It has been an unexpectedly wonderful story. The characters are all well drawn, some very disparate personality types are thrust together and find ways of thriving together. The story ends with chapter 54, but a second book of stories about the characters from Owen and about his hometown of Riverton. Cheers dioscuri
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