Jump to content
The Talon House

pietro

ICARIAN
  • Posts

    167
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Everything posted by pietro

  1. Well, Altinestra, if I recall correctly, was settled by scientists who were most likely non-religious as a group. Even if there were some with a powerful belief I doubt the majority would have accepted any organised observance or shown any interest. Also one can assume there was little 'unknown' among the original settlers, not understood, perhaps, but not unknown. Religion depends on ignorance and the fear of the unknown to take hold, in my opinion, of course and I have no problem with other people having a belief, provided they don't use it as an excuse to interfere with me. It is interesting that religion wasn't present post the fall in the current time line either, not until Sarjanus got the wrong end of the stick, as it were, when the world had been reduced to an iron age state. And his religion did initially have good effects, introducing a measure of morality and safety into everyday life, reducing war and oppression. As would be expected it became perverted after, but initially it was a force for good and thus attractive to those on the lowest tiers of society. The analogues with real world religion are obvious, so I won't say more. Nor would I wish my atheist views to offend, I very much believe in each to their own.
  2. I don't know if Kyle uses an editor for Kandric, I suspect he does from dimly remembered comments here and there, but not all editors are necessarily competent Certainly if you get into reading a story it is difficult to edit it, almost as difficult as editing your own work. I must confess that I have kept a copy of this, and other works, stuff on the internet can disappear without trace and without warning, after all. With a quality work like Kandric I do in fact edit what I have retained, mainly for grammatical, spelling and typographic errors but also correcting obvious errors and some of the more tortuous paragraphs that leave me with a 'what!!!!' and require re-reading to make sense of on occasion. I also hate the red on black colour scheme as I did the white on brown it had at one time, although maybe that was something else. Black on white is my preference. I hasten to add that I am not criticising Kyle or his assumed editor in any way, should he read this, errors of a similar nature are not unknown even in published books. Like the others here, I will follow this story to the end, whatever the quality of the edit and however long it takes.
  3. Your arguments don't convince me. Jamie and particularly Niklas are virtually clones of De Valan and Agramos, not much left to chance there. Nor do I dispute that the underlying theories of Jonas and Croal's plans are based on chaos theory. As I see it the chaotic element was in creating a species with sufficient potential to break the empire and then standing back. After all, if the majority of Icarians turned out like Hippolito, entirely possible with chaos theory, well things might not have been so rosy. I certainly agree that Croal saw Kalorians and Icarians as people rather than things and that normal socialisation was an important element. But don't forget, the majority of Icarians exhibit the best traits of humanity despite their upbringing and training, so nobility must be part of the innate Icarian character, although Hippolito and no doubt others were certainly lacking. And don't forget Croal was a terrible 'father', manipulating, continually spying on and controlling his 'sons'. I wouldn't look at him through Jamie's eyes, reality says he was 90% scientist and 9% revolutionary. Not a lot of loving left there. He may have been on the side of right as we see it, but he was just as ruthless as anyone else in the empire. I can assure you I certainly do not confuse religion and science, nor blur any lines, intentionally at least. I am 99% atheist with 1% agnostic as nothing is completely impossible. I see no validity in any religion, to my mind they are all obviously human constructs without spiritual foundation. I use 'soul' because as a word it is understandable as being the fundamental, essential, innate essence of a person's sentience, everything that makes them what they are. I also think it has more to do with chemistry than anything spiritual. I consider humanity to be no more than the top tier of higher animals, so on that basis, yes, many animals do have a 'soul'. Anyone with a cat or dog will recognise curiosity, playfulness, pain, irritation, anger etcetera, even perhaps nobility and self-sacrifice on occasion, all of which fits my interpretation of 'soul'. I will be pleased and amazed if there turns out to be an afterlife, but I doubt very much there is.
  4. Hhhmmm, I can't say I agree with your position. As I read it, Croal knew exactly what he was creating with Jamie, Niklas and Charlie and probably Giovanni and Jonathan as well. The chaos element was in their having powers and attributes far beyond the empire's understanding and thus beyond the empire's ability to control them. This is particularly so with Jamie and Charlie, thus introducing the seven-sided dice, roll them expecting them to have six sides and the result is completely unpredictable. I do not think birds of any species represents a model, genetic or otherwise, for Icarian bonding, to me it is clearly a 'soul sharing', or whatever you want to call it, type thing.
  5. I second that I have begun re-reading and I am sorry to report that there seems to be very little 'updating' as far as the story goes. As far as I can see the only update in the first few chapters is the first line of the first chapter. There may be some editing but as to additional content or corrections to suspected errors, nothing I can see.
  6. The first ten chapters with the new edit are reported as being up at Wolfsnest if there is any interest.
  7. Quite right. Literature has a great advantage over other aspects of art; you can ignore or just skim bits you find offensive if the bulk of the story catches your interest. Such is definitely the case with The Kandric Saga.
  8. In fairness the adult/youth aspects are, for the most part, allusion or implicit rather than explicit, and where such things are explicit it is usually, if not exclusively, necessary to the narrative, in other words, it is not gratuitous. That said, this is a very dark, ruthless and violent world with little regard for modern sensibilities, no punches pulled and very much in the cast of the common conception of the dark ages. Kyle's characters, as with all excellent writers, are very 'real', some are both truly heroic and consummately evil at the same time, as well as some truly noble and others purely evil, there are no cardboard cut-out characters or clich├ęs, not even among the peripheral people.
  9. Oh excellent news I had been keeping my fingers crossed for a New Year present as that seems to be Kyle's style with this story, checking every day since Christmas, and was just about to pass my hopes on to Summer. Updates for the other chapters is also excellent. This story has been in the writing for over ten years, after all, I am sure a lot of additional ideas have come to Kyle in that time. I am even more pleased that he has gone for updating rather than abandoning the story as so many other writers do when a story evolves beyond what they have already written, and not just internet writers either! Perhaps you will be kind enough, T, to let us know when the chapters are up as the GA update pages are currently useless. I have said it before, but I think both Jamie.wri and Kyle's stories are truly excellent, both eminently publishable (although Kyle's work probably wouldn't pass today's moral censorship as it stands, as he notes himself)
  10. We know no one else could create an Icarian from scratch. We have been told categorically that Croal kept the secret of their creation to himself, others working on the Avionne project could only tinker with the genetics of Croal created embryos or maybe pre-embryos. Thus the likes of Jamie and Niklas must have been engineered by Croal. We do? I think all we have is rumor and innuendo. We know that all the rumours about Jamie and his affairs are false, we also know that all the rumours about Nicklas are also false. That proves that there are some good gossip mongers in Kuronos. In Jamie's case it is the Impressario's office that encourages those rumours. In fact, aside from the comments made in the Bronze Interlude where the Ghadar are camped outside of the city in which Loran's army is ensconced, we have nothing. There, all we have is wolf whistles and comments on what might be fun. Assuming what you propose is like saying that the Americanized version of "Queer as Folk" is an accurate representation of how gay men acted in the 1980's, when I know that it isn't. Most of that series is about the myth of what gay society is like. Its to bad people actually believe it. We know something about relationships that were made then torn apart because the pair were separated when they were sent or bought by different Dukes or Barrons. That is part of the discussion with Trio Chrysialis about Christophe. All that talk is about trying to avoid disunion when a mated pair were forceably separated. I think it ii is a better idea to look closer to home and closer to biology her on earth. Macaw s. for instance, mate for life. Some species of Geese also mate for life. Don't agree. Several species mate for life and some will even pine to death after but they don't share a soul as 'mated' Icarians do. I think there is a bit of semantics involved here, a confusion with simple sexual mating and a much more intense bonding both using the term 'mate'. I think the Icarian project as conceived by Croal and Jonas of Amodon was a subversive project from the beginning. From Croal's point of view it was a way of making up for the creation of the Kalorians which ultimately became a slave race. The Empire is attempting to do the same with the Icarirans, However, because of Croal and Jonas belief in the concept of complexity, the Icarian race is quite unpredictable. Some things are sort of hard wired, not much though. Everything except resistance to disease and inteligence is left up to the roll of the dice. Even the creation of Charlie and Jamie from the same DNA, didn't make two of the same Icarians. Again I don't see it that way, for normal Icarians, yes, but Jamie and Niklas and Charlie, and probably Jonathan and Giovanni, all the evidence is for very careful and precise engineering of specific traits and abilities. Croal knew about other conspiritors, but only enough to get what he wanted done. The reason that any revolution in that Empire worked was because they didn't know about each other. If one failed, another one was there to fill in the gap somehow.Also, remember that the Kalorians are the slaves and the servants of the Empire, they are always there in the background and assumed to be invisible, which enables them to do things like move Castor around the Empire until he's working at the Mondale. So moving Gioivani in place in Expedition and Service would not be beyond the capability of the Kalorian conspiricy. Who ever from the Empire (like Savaron Loka), or even Hippolito, who attempted to interfere and control the Icarians was in for a big surprise. Genetically they are as surprising as any new species we might find here on earth. My money is still on the Farzetti as the central conspirators. Well, we can't be expected to all agree. The greatest advantage the written word has over film is that we all interpret what we read differently. One person will see something fundamentally significant where another will see nothing and vice versa.
  11. I think this was engineered into them, besides what was already there. We know from the history lessons we've had that Agramos loved de Valen, but never acted upon it. We know that Edmond Croal created Jamie and Charlie, so whoever created Niklas von Agramon, also created Giovanni and Jamie is the only one who knows Giovanni really is. No one knows who sent him to the school to eventually meet up with Jamie. I think from what we have seen so far Icarians are generally randy and promiscuous as well as generally friendly so all kinds of partnership up to a full bond is possible. The bond I think is something different, more on the level of a Vulcan (a la star trek) bond, a permanent mental joining where the participants can almost share one consciousness, sharing a soul or however you want to put it. It is the tearing of this bond that causes disunion and potential suicide. But as I said before, sufficient need or responsibility could overcome it to some extent. As to origins, from all we have read so far we can fairly assume Croal created Niklas, Giovanni and probably Jonathan. Why? Because all of these have non-standard, or maybe special would be a better word, DNA. We also know that he created Charles because Charles was the first icarian. Who smuggled these boys into their respective niches, Niklas the Gahdar, Giovanni service and expedition at the Mondele and Jonathan who knows where? My betting is on the Farzetti. Although they have little mention in Jamie.wri's work so far, it is obvious they played a very important role behind the scenes. In fact I would guess that they were Croal's principal conspirators, giving him tentacles into every level of the empire. Happy new year to one and all.
  12. Well, yes, but those events aren't linked. As I recall, the destruction of the hov after visiting Croal was a long time before Charles signed the warrant that initiated the raid on villa Mare Vista and Croal's death. What is more interesting is that the hov was destroyed by an imperial battle hov, the assumption being it was destroyed because it was known by the empire to be involved in no good. However, if there had been suspicions about what the hov visiting Croal had been doing I doubt the empire would have simply shot it down, every effort would have been made to secure those on board in a suitable condition for questioning. More likely this was a cover up to destroy evidence, or possibly someone compromised, or maybe for another reason altogether. If this was an official act of the empire the persons ordering the destruction of the hov and its supposed passengers could have known nothing about its journey and the visit to Croal, if they had the game would have been up at that point. The empire wasn't too worried about having proof, suspicion alone would be enough to act, especially against someone outside the sphere of power as Croal certainly was. However, if it wasn't the empire behind it then those giving the order probably did know what it had been doing and didn't want anyone else to know, which points to one of the resistance groups, most likely the one Charles was leading. Interesting. I wonder if it will ever be explained.
  13. I'm not sure we can surmise that the Icarian was not Charles. I'm not saying it was but just that since the hov is destroyed out of sight of anyone we know of who was watching, almost anything could have happened within even 3 minutes. Look how fast Renaud lands and restarts his hov while dropping off Jamie at the power generator! We also do not know if the Icarian in Croal's office was the pilot of the hov or if he had another person in the hov acting as pilot. All we know is that Jamie saw a Red & Black Icarian entering a hov, then the hov taking off immediately. The flight back to Kuronos would have taken over an hour which gives ample time for someone to have landed, gotten out of the hov, put the hov back into the air or changed hovs mid-trip. Conspiricy theory I know, but isn't this what the Empire is best at? This is one other incident that has Jamie.wri signature written all over it as a huge unsolvable puzzle designed to keep us wondering. cheers, dioscuri Yes I pointed out some time ago reference to this incident that hovs could be pre-programmed to fly. Also I am not sure that we saw Charles sign the order to destroy the hov, I won't look as I am determined not to re-read anything until the final edit arrives. I only recall him reluctantly giving the order to raid Villa Mare Vista when Loka intervened and Croal was murdered.
  14. I think Jamie and Charles first 'real' meeting must be in the chapters to come. Of course, Charles may have been the Icarian visitor to Croal or Jamie might have seen him, without being introduced, at one of the various functions he attended, I am sure anyone else there would have been more than eager to fill Jamie in on Charles' power and supposed evil, certainly Miro and the other Gahdar would know all about him. And you know what irrepressible gossips they are . I don't think disunion inevitably leads to madness and death, that outcome is just very likely. I am sure that at one point Jamie asks Niklas to fight disunion should anything happen to Jamie and protect Charlie. Given a great enough responsibility or need I think it can be overcome. The question of Jonathan is very difficult. Jonathan's condition is almost certainly not accidental or a by-product of a failed experiment. Like Jamie, Niklas and Charlie he must have been created outside of official empire view and like them was created for a specific purpose with specific attributes in line with Croal and Jonas' plans. Indeed it would be very Croal-like for Jonathan to be created as Charles' genetic brother in order to ensure he always had powerful protection, just as he did with Jamie (the shield) and Charlie (the weapon). The interesting question is where has Jonathan been. I suppose he could have been a 'failed' experiment in that it is fairly obvious there were people in Gold Glass who actively assisted Croal and the resistance and his real 'adjustments' were done secretly with the failed experiment as cover. After that he would have been spirited away and hidden while officially terminated. Alternatively Charles may have been allowed to keep him if he was a true genetic brother, even if a failed experiment, but given the attitude of the empire I think that unlikely, certainly if that was part of a plan to keep Jonathan safe it would have been a very foolhardy one, not likely to succeed. Also remember the empire's watchword when creating avionnes was perfection, imperfect production was terminated as happened to those unfortunate to be born blind in the vision experiments. Let us hope there some answers in the not too distant future.
  15. Could this be the work of Charles? Remember, he had that worm planted that wouldn't become active until sometime after Jamie began his time in stasis. Also, if you remember in the last chapter, as Jamie and the Trio were climbing the steps, people were trying to catch a look at the tattoo on his leg. I think Hippolito had some knowledge of the Orbs thru Loka. Just how much, we don't know. Loran certainly would have known about the germinus in the Golden Orb. Maybe Hippolito tried to get him to absorb it and Loran told him why he wouldn't. Thus a plan was hatched to get it to Jamie. I suspect that Hippolito already suspects that Gude will try something and the shon fenn will be keeping an eye on him. I did suggest some time ago that it was the worm Charles introduced that might have been the cause of Jamie losing his wizardly abilities. On the other hand it may just be that he never 'lost' them, he just didn't know he had them, it is difficult to surmise exactly what has happened. One thing I noted is that Jamie didn't seem particularly surprised when Charlie returned his memories, almost as if he had remembered most of it anyway, after all he did know where Charlie was, he was also familiar with Argos, knew he had sealed the door to the Hall of Science, or whatever it was called, knew the layout of the place and that the Ghroum were there in stasis, etc. He had been regaining his memories quite quickly while in Konassas, of course, aided by his studies with the 'screen' and through the relics Andrew brought for him. He knew about the gate system etc. However the really important point here is that he was able use his wizardly powers in a variety of ways, fireballs, levitation etc, as well as to utilise 'The Great Shout' and 'Time Turning'. All this tends to suggest that he was a fully developed wizard, even if he was only utilising powers originating with the orbs he had ingested. None of which is relevant to Hippolito and his activity, of course. Sorry.
  16. The dear Abbot is merely in shock -- temporarily. When have you ever seen him not plotting or planning some evil thing? His lust for power drives him, his self righteous religious indignation is actually for sale for the right price! Even as Hippolito snips the map and defines territory, the mere mention of slaves has the evil wheel turning in his mind! After all, what would a mere 60,000 more deaths mean to someone who has likely supervised the killing of many thousands of other humans during his pitiful life as a Holy Blood Sucker? Jamie did not loose the tattoo he got when he reached puberty. The tattoo is intact even after stasus , what is being added are the icons or symbols for the individual Orbs. I think Hippolitos knowledge of the Orbs is rather limited. He has no idea of the subtleties of the Orbs themselves nor the powers they instill. Further, I think sending the Orb of the Lion to Jamie really was Loran's idea, not Hippolito (as tempting as that theory might be), it implies more understanding of the Orbs than I think Hippolito really posesses. Hippolito is really just your average snoopy house keeper with a vastly swollen head and delusions of grandeur encouraged by Savaron Loka for his own benefit. cheers, dioscuri No, no, no, no. When Jamie was in the Mondele the Tattoo that developed was complete with the creature pictographs, after stasis it was only the circles and scroll-work for want of a better description, the pictographs were missing until he ingested the relevant orb. As to Hippolito, I am sure he has no idea of the subtleties of anything, and as I said, while Gude will no doubt plot and scheme in his notably evil way, most of his efforts would be directed at bolstering his power where he can, among the native population. The disparity between the iron age society that currently exists and the Icarians, even the Thrones, is too great for the ordinary people to be more than an inconvenience. Besides which, I would say Hippolito could give Gude lessons in ruthlessness that would shock even that old man.
  17. The fact that Jamie and the Ghadar end up at Rood as Entertainment Execution is a mere glitch in the master plan. The glitch is cleared up when the Empire is stupid enough to threaten Nicklas' life in front of his bonded mate thus incurring the wrath of an almost fully developed Imperial. This turns out (I gather ) to be an illustration of the craft of Croal and his deciples in creating Jamie, Niklas and the Ghadar! With a small earth quake, and some fire balls and perhaps some lightening, the plan gets back on track more or less. We don't know that there are any Ghadar nestlings. We don't know if that "experiment" was cancelled or if it continued. We await that answer to. 150 surviving Icarians? No ... 51 Duets (the Ghadar) make 102 plus Nicklas is 103, then 1000 PAIRS of the Wizard's own protectorate which he awakened, then the Princes and Scribes of the Icarian Government and so forth, I think that makes in excess of 2200 Icarians. There are, as I believe is pointed out in several places, questions about what happened to the rest, but we have no information at all about those nor do we know what's on the other side of the barrier. If you notice that Taldor Valeron trades regularly with the farmers from the Green Valley (destroyed by Loran) and are well known by the keepers of the vineyards where the Ghadar are sequestered. This raises questions about the lineage of the farmers from the barrier all the way up to the North where Domain Carolus is. We also do not know who the Vache are either! Jamie's Plan is not a failure by any means, it just didn't go off exactly as planned. However, I think things were planned so that they would not go off as planned. This is complexity theory! So, we await 2 chapters and 4 Interludes as well as another book! cheers, dioscuri Ah, but the plan does go wrong, as Moltke said after Clausewitz "No ... plan survives first contact with the enemy". What we don't know is just how far wrong it goes and what the results are. I know it is Christmas and there is probably much good cheer of liquid variety around but, "However, I think things were planned so that they would not go off as planned." is a little, er, um, not quite right As to numbers of Icarians, I was referring to those known, the Wizards Own were not common knowledge, besides which it isn't relevent, except in the sense of maybe my asking, "And what about the rest of the non military Icarians? In book 1 we have only encountered about 150 surviving, about a fifth ...." Anyway, as you say '... we await 2 chapters and 4 Interludes as well as another book!'
  18. Good points, certainly possible, although I suspect that Loran will simply steamroller his way through, losing his army as he goes. After all he will be fixated on arriving at the Circle of Ondra, or the road to it, in order to intercept Jamie before he arrives if possible. We know from Jamie's advice to Brotus and the Taldor Valoren elders that Loran cannot be stopped by them, only his troops are vulnerable. I can't see him sending for reinforcements unless he thinks he himself has been blocked from gaining Ondra. I agree that Hippolito is definitely sneaky rather than smart, in fact for an Icarian, I would say he was downright retarded. His confidence and sense of superiority is born entirely of his arrogance, inflated from his standing within the shadow of Savaron Loka's very real power, power he has manipulated (or so he thinks) to get his way. He never learns from his mistakes as he never makes mistakes, it always someone or something else's fault if things go wrong just as he fails to realise that without Loka and his power behind him he has very little chance of out-manoeuvring Jamie or any other Icarian come to that. As to the current situation, as I see it, Hippolito has left Gude in his dust and the Abbot would love to and even may try something I doubt it would be successful, even against Hippolito. I agree with your time-line for Hippolito's plots concerning Jamie, but I think he will still be around with his 60,000 thrones for a while yet. I suspect his plan is to get to the Circle of Ondra after Jamie or Loran has prevailed but before the winner can re-absorb the orbs. That would really be the only window of opportunity he would have to get rid of the only real danger as he would presumably see it, a fully empowered wizard. No doubt he doesn't realise that Jamie is already a full wizard, if that is, Jamie has got his full powers. If he has then having got his memories back he must know he is and that he is not in any danger from the 'worm'. But there again, why did he lose the tattoo that marks him as a wizard? It developed while he was at the Mondele but was gone when he came out of stasis.
  19. Nope. Not what I said. My bad. Too lazy to click on reply. I was responding to TalonRider's comment, not yours.
  20. Ah, but that would assume the Big Bad Machine is is the generator for the barrier, which it may not be. Either my intellect is failing me or we simply don't have enough information/clues to make a reasoned guess.
  21. Hhhmmm, I think maybe that is a bit optimistic, after all, from what we apparently know both Jamie and Loran have to be in the Circle of Ondra. That said, I seem to recall that the 'key' for the barrier is in Taldor Valoran, whether Loran knows that or not I can't remember. Still it is not too long before we find these things out, I hope
  22. I would just like to say I am not in any way disparaging Jamie.wri as an author. TSOI is right up there with the greats of sci/fi and Jamie.wri is certainly able to stand with Arthur C Clarke, Asimov, Niven et al.
  23. I couldn't agree more. The book I found with the most excellent characterisation was Frank Herbert's 'Dune'. That was the first book I read multiple times, and will read again, in fact, it is the only book where I literally turned from the last page and started again at the first page. And I enjoyed it even more the second time. If it hadn't been for one of my teachers giving it to me one day with an 'I think you would this' I might never have read it. He also leant me the 'Sot Weed Factor', another excellent book. Well, having helped take the forum completely off topic I had better go. But first as a little redress, I also agree Jamie.wri provides excellent characterisation, not quite the level Frank Herbert achieved with 'Dune', but then, Herbert himself rarely did so, only, I think, with 'The Dragon in the Sea', but it is a long time since I have read it and maybe I was thinking of 'The Eyes of Heisenberg'.
  24. I wouldn't agree there. I think the Empire was long well aware of the Avione intelligence and potential, if I recall correctly the only reason the project was continued once they realised just how great that potential was, was their inability to reproduce naturally, thus allowing the Empire ultimate control. Again I am not too sure, but I think there was a clue somewhere that suggested Hippolito either sabotaged the battlecom where Alexander died on instructions from, or was present as an observer for, Loka. Indeed I strongly doubt Hippolito had the technical knowledge, or acumen, to do the sabotage himself. Remember this happened in front of a house full of Gahdar who would have recognised anything obviously wrong with the battlecom which suggests the sabotage was quite subtle, perhaps even a remote control command overide or similar in Hippolito's pocket. Anyway, I am determined not to re-read anything until we have the final version. I am currently reading 'Towers of Midnight' the penultimate Wheel of Time book, which I feel has been a little spoiled by my re-reading the entire series before reading 'The Gathering Storm' as it had been so long in coming due to Robert Jordan's unfortunate ill health. It might, of course, simply be that I am reacting to the slightly different technique of Brandon Sanderson, still time will tell.
×
×
  • Create New...